Redesign the BBC

at 01:42 on 27 April 2006, Fazal Khan wrote:

This is dispicable behaviour from the BBC. I don't think people are realising the issue here. They are undermining the cost of design. To redesign something as popular as the BBC page requires an intricate knowledge of SO many web design and usabilty fundamentals. Simply coaxing a designer with £2k worth of product and a blue peter badge is not my idea of reward. Sure it's a good opportunity for an up and coming or unknown to make their mark - but the reward should also financialy reflect the effort that will be put in. I say boycott it. Once the BBC does it, don't be surprised if your own clients start offering you ipod nano's for your next project. The BBC should lead by example and really show they value designers insight by rewarding them better. The only credit I can offer them is the fact that it's an open invitation to all. BOYCOTT it - or good luck to you...

at 04:35 on 27 April 2006, David B. wrote:

hmm, yeah after reading it twice to make sure i didnt misread anything, i am inclined to side with you Fazal, we have enough problems as designers proving our worth to potential cleints, who will follow this next, espn? put mike davidson out of business? not a good omen.

at 05:49 on 27 April 2006, Anatoli Papirovski wrote:

I completely agree with you guys. Even though they say they're not going to use any of the designs, in the rules it says that any work submitted is taken as if the person was hired to work for BBC. :-

I'm very disappointed by this.

at 06:27 on 27 April 2006, willr wrote:

Its slave labour thats what it is. They too uncreative and boring to come up with any new or exciting ideas on their own.... but it is a nice laptop :P

at 10:00 on 27 April 2006, jakob wrote:

even though it sounds like something close to spec work, its intresting to read this:

http://open.bbc.co.uk/reboot/blog/2006/04/we_want_to_reboot_not_ripoff.html

at 15:40 on 27 April 2006, James wrote:

I find this dispicible behaviour from a bitter web development community. I guess you just stopped on over to criticise the BBC (it is the national hobby, after all) before you go over to Slashdot to the do the same.

You've got your stories mixed up. The BBC are not going to use people's comps as the final design. They're looking for fresh ideas, not fancy graphics. This is the difference between the BBC's competition and Slashdot's.

From a business point of view it makes no sense to send the BBC website into the marketplace when they employ a sizable web team - Slashdot probably don't.

So, repeat after me: This Is A Good Thing.

Get your entries in. Then we'll have something to criticise ;)

at 16:08 on 27 April 2006, Anatoli Papirovski wrote:

Did you even read the comments, James? I said that despite them not taking the work and using it, you can only have their word for it, because what the rules state is something completely different. They say that any work done is taken as "work for hire", so in the end they have all the rights to those things.

It's spec work by a huge company, shame on them for that. No matter what we have to deliver, they would be paying much more to professionals for these idea and all we get is that MBP? Well, screw them.

How would companie like it if they had to "spec" build houses? I mean, they would have to build a house and then the investor would decide which one wins. That would be amazing, wouldn't it? Well, this is the same thing. But in webdesign, it seems that nobody cares and it's completely fine. :(

at 17:53 on 27 April 2006, Mary-Ann Horley wrote:

I think they are trying to get ideas from the masses, not just the web development community.

at 19:22 on 27 April 2006, Hilary wrote:

Something very fishy going on.. I wouldnt trust that..

at 19:48 on 27 April 2006, Tim wrote:

I think all of you are reading too much into this. It's ok that slashdot and evolt do the same, but lord forbid the BBC does something like it.

I can understand why they'd want to "protect" some of the submitted works.

You all need a good whooping back to reality...

at 21:33 on 27 April 2006, Thame wrote:

"I think all of you are reading too much into this. It's ok that slashdot and evolt do the same, but lord forbid the BBC does something like it."

Yes, exactly. It is OK for /. but not BBC.

at 21:46 on 27 April 2006, Nick Toye wrote:

If you were at university and were offered the chance to do a redesign for a big company, on the premise that it was only a competition and not a way of gaining cheap labour - would you do it?

Think of the exposure plus the experience of developing for a big name.

The problem with this country is we need something to complain about, that is the most dispicable thing.

Try and READ before you READ too much into something that isn't there.

at 22:27 on 27 April 2006, Kyle Talbott wrote:

Hey, all the drama has either overloaded their pipes dedicated to this reboot or put them in the uncomfortable position of blocking the subsite...

at 02:19 on 28 April 2006, Anatoli Papirovski wrote:

I'm still unsure as to which country people are referring by "this country". I'm certainly not form US or UK, so, please stop saying "this country" like we're all from the same one (even though I don't know which one).

Second, it's not about the student getting a work into his portfolio, but about every other company following this example. They're setting a bad example here.

I would like to ask you, why are there no houses done as "spec" work, or paintings? Because they have to actually create something, in webdesign it seems like nothing is created so there's no reason why we shouldn't do "spec" work.

at 11:23 on 28 April 2006, Luc wrote:

If you were at university and were offered the chance to do a redesign for a big company, on the premise that it was only a competition and not a way of gaining cheap labour - would you do it?

Probably, but I'd hope the BBC site, which as a UK resident paying a license fee, would be designed and built by professionals who had a lot of experience in the field. And I'm talking YEARS of it, at a level where you can have a career with it. Would you expect someone who knows exactly how much time and effort it takes to design something this huge to do it for free? No. If the BBC want to make me exempt from the license fee for designing their site, then fine, but otherwise they can bugger off.

at 12:41 on 28 April 2006, Hilary wrote:

Good point Luc, and I find it interesting that they are advertising this in places like this, and other web design communities with a very high standard of design.. this is a 'design a web page in word for fun' competition, they are looking for professional web designers to do it, anyone who doesn't find that suspicious is very naiive I think!!

at 14:09 on 28 April 2006, Simes McGoracle wrote:

What's going on with everyone? Is the BBC putting guns to people's heads and making them enter their competition? Hey, here's an idea... if you don't like it, don't get involved with it. To me it looks like 'a bit of fun'; to be honest, I haven't got the spare time outside doing paid work to take that on. I'm not going to get bent out of shape over it.

Conspiracy theorists, you're blowing it out of proportion - if you read the comments above, you'd think this was right up there with 'who shot JFK?'

Over-n-owt

at 14:52 on 28 April 2006, Luc wrote:

What's going on with everyone? Is the BBC putting guns to people's heads and making them enter their competition? Hey, here's an idea... if you don't like it, don't get involved with it.

I'd take that stance too, if it weren't for the fact that I'm in essence paying the BBC to take the time and effort to do it themselves. The fact that they can take anything submitted and use it without breaking a sweat is totally contrary to the fact that they're a public funded organisation.

at 17:21 on 28 April 2006, Nick wrote:

I think people are missing the point the main point of the competition.

"So, what does your bbc.co.uk look like?

What should its focus be? What kinds of ideas, concepts and services do you want represented?

This is your opportunity to help reshape bbc.co.uk for the future"

They are asking what you'd like from bbc.co.uk, and what better way to display this than showing them in a mock up design.

When they have all the designs together they can see if there are any trends/similarities as to what people want/expect which they can use when they design the new site.

"despite them not taking the work and using it, you can only have their word for it"

Come on, they need to cover themselves legally by claiming rights to the work. If they break their word THEN you can have a go for them ripping your whole design off.

As a UK resident paying a license fee i'm glad they trying to get some idea of what we want from the site and this is a great opportunity to give them some

at 18:07 on 28 April 2006, Fazal Khan wrote:

I know it may seem like fun, and yes I would agree that to someone who wants to hit the limelight and get showcased, this is a huge opportunity, especially students.

I'm glad this is a debate, and of course some people will see this as a bit of fun, I don't think it's a conspiracy, but I do think that it will undermine the value of design should the final concept be made permanent.

There are enough people out there that would simply follow this example and start to undercut and undermine the value of our craft.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my opinion. I'm glad we have an active enough community to repond intellegently to it.

at 18:09 on 28 April 2006, David B. wrote:

"This is your opportunity to help reshape bbc.co.uk for the future"

im personally not getting bent out of shap about it, but if its just a question of them wanting reasearch to improve their site, then why is this aimed at designers? why not just the average joe that actually uses the site?

i would bet that most people that find nothing a bit stange about this dont have to prove time and time again to clients why thier work should be valued more than a templatemonster site.

if you are in business, i would think most people would understand that this type of thing goes straight to the heart of why many designers find it hard to startup in the midst of the cheapening of our craft. its not a point of "if you dont like it dont participate" its a point of, what if more big companiesstart doing this? who does that put out of business?

and if you think they cant use the ideas given inthe designes i do believe you are looking at it a bit naively. covering themselves leagally...

at 18:11 on 28 April 2006, David B. wrote:

and taking "inspiration" from the submitted designs and ideas are two different things. they could easily and leagally take from varing ideas and amalgomate a site into a vision of the 'people'

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