controversial?

at 13:14 on 10 May 2007, Sekka wrote:

I wouldn't call it controversial at all. I have been having similar thoughts myself.

The whole Web 2.0 and accessibility drive on the web is forcing Flash out as a website platform.

at 13:45 on 10 May 2007, schnuck wrote:

yes, true but can you see any micro-/promo-site for icecream/fizzy drinks/sports shoe or the x photographer's portfolio site without the use of flash (as in 100% flash)? i can't. i don't like flash for obvious reasons but we have to stick to reality here. flash will never disappear. the above genres will always be 90%-95% flash. even in 10 years from now.

at 15:19 on 10 May 2007, Justin wrote:

Link no worky anymore.

at 15:28 on 10 May 2007, Ty wrote:

Yep the links down, should the post come off as a news item?

Let me know...

at 16:11 on 10 May 2007, schnuck wrote:

i reckon it's just a temporary traffic overload issue. it was a good read so i would suggest you leave the post for a while...?

at 17:39 on 10 May 2007, Mjuk wrote:

Macromedia took it down!

at 23:25 on 10 May 2007, David B wrote:

Purist... I wonder how many of you who don't like flash, actually know how to program in it? Is it user frustration? Because it can't simply be flash itself, so it has to be how people use flash that is the issue, and I say to that, learn how to use it, if it doesn't work for a particular project, then don't use it.

To say its on its way out is very naive I think. I feel that some should get outside the standards community and into a broader work and design arena before making such sweeping comments, but this is just one mans opinion.

at 23:26 on 10 May 2007, Alex wrote:

There is no Macromedia!

at 00:17 on 11 May 2007, Steven wrote:

David B, Flash is certainly handy in some unique cases, such as mini apps (Adobe Kuler, for instance) or satisfying certain niche roles (streaming video delivery being the biggest), but it's just not practical to use Flash for content delivery -- and that's what websites do, they deliver content.

Flash, like anything, can be used well or poorly, but good use of flash is uncommon. When it's used perfectly, you never notice it's there. When it's used anything less than perfectly, it puts load screens and superfluous animation between a user and your client's content, and steals away a user's control over tabbing, font adjustment, bookmarking content, even copy and paste in some cases.

It introduces an awful lot of potential problems, requires an awful lot of careful planning and implementation, and offers precious few benefits to our core business of formatting content for the web. There's almost always a better solution to a problem than Flash.

at 01:34 on 11 May 2007, David B wrote:

"Flash, like anything, can be used well or poorly"

Everything else you put as a defense of the non use of flash pivots on this point, which is what I said. If you look at flash as a barrier, then it will be. If your use of flash goes against the primary goal of the site, then you are using it wrong, but what you have stated in no way negates what I said, I fully agree with every single thing you said. I simply feel that saying flash is going the way of the dodo bird is a misconception and closed minded way of looking at things. Any look around the web says otherwise.

I also would go so far to say that it's incumbent upon this niche community (standards designers) to embrace flash, for out of this group is going to come the correct usage and delivery of content with and through flash... But most standards designers look down their noses at flash for no other reason than they read an article that said they should, and quite frankly thanks close minded and sad.

at 01:59 on 11 May 2007, Ken wrote:

flash rocks for the sole purpose of sIFR!

Full flash site were always a mistake. But they have there purpose on being just there for aesthetics only. Band websites are a good example of good use of full flash sites.

at 09:49 on 11 May 2007, Cozzano wrote:

Flash is going no where. Despite what the 'standards community' would like to think. What is possible now in javascript + css has been around in Flash for many many years. Flash is way ahead in terms of what it is capable of.

Quick example, due to the limitations of IE web devs can't use alpha channel pngs (IE6 - which you must still take account of), or simple rounded corner boxes. Now go any play a computer game like BF2, look at the graphics and the abilities the game has - then ask yourself why web dev's are so limited.

at 15:41 on 11 May 2007, Flash Gordon wrote:

Flash used for navigation will fuck up your navigation.

EOD.

at 18:54 on 11 May 2007, TnoFlash wrote:

I'ld have to agree about the navigation, that's the biggest no-no and what makes Flash as a website "platform" ridiculous. Clicking back at the wrong time totally dumps the entire site(here come those swell loading animations, oh, boy). Flash "pages" can't be bookmarked or indexed by a search engine(not really).

Flash as "The" timeline animator on the net probably won't change anytime soon. But many of the javascript libraries are providing options, to avoid Flash when possible.

Flash has it's uses, when you want full-blown production animation is there any other application worth discussing?

at 19:40 on 11 May 2007, Ty wrote:

It just occurred to me that a website built the wrong way with Flash, and nothing but flash, isn't a website at all, it's a presentation.

at 23:24 on 11 May 2007, schnuck wrote:

"But most standards designers look down their noses at flash for no other reason than they read an article that said they should, and quite frankly thanks close minded and sad."

could you please explain what you are trying to say? it doesn't make sense at all. do i need a special plug-in to understand what you mean?

at 05:21 on 12 May 2007, David B. wrote:

Sigh, the only thing I messed up was "that's closed minded" if you cant understand that sentence beyond that. I'm sorry schnuck I can't dumb it down an further for you... Take it light.

at 06:15 on 14 May 2007, Brian M wrote:

99.9% of all websites look and function like crap no matter the medium used BECAUSE its the developers fault not the medium used.

Actionscript is a powerful programming language that needs to be used correctly so that its potential can be seen.

Unfortunately most people only think of flash as a tool for creating crappy animations and intros. Like I said before most of the web is of poor quality, but it is funny to me that in my experience it is the haters that usually don't even understand the difference between markup language and true programming. Maybe this is where the frustration comes from?

Flash forever! - or until something better comes along :)

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